Talk:Avenge

Sludge Belcher / Abomination / Flamestrike example

The explanation for the simultaneity of the Slime damage and buff in this example was unclear. When I first read it, it seemed like Flamestrike's simultaneity was being emphasized, so that supposedly caused the simultaneous damage and buff. However, if we took Flamestrike out of the equation and simply killed an Abomination next to a 2-health minion and Avenge, the simultaneity would still occur to save the minion. It's the exact same effect that was already described in the Unstable Ghoul example. So Flamestrike does not appear to be causing any additional simultaneous effects.

The example is complicated because it's demonstrating two different effects, one order-dependent and the other simultaneous.

1. The weird one when a Deathrattle-summon and Avenge are both triggered by Flamestrike.
2. The explosive Deathrattle effect that governs the Ghoul example.

It's actually quite a relief that we can identify two separate effects for this stuff, because otherwise it would be quite confusing for Flamestrike to enforce simultaneity of Avenge and explosive Deathrattles, but resolve deaths sequentially with regard to triggering Avenge onto Deathrattle tokens!

Even with the two pieces described individually beforehand, that final example remained confusing in the context presented. That was especially due to the clause calling "all consequences of AoE effects like Flamestrike" simultaneous, which was mistaken - the fact that explosive Deathrattles can hit OR fail to hit the tokens from other Deathrattles shows how Flamestrike's deaths are NOT treated as if they took place simultaneously. I've removed the mention of Flamestrike from the description of things occurring simultaneously, and re-contextualized the final example as a combination of the two previous effects.

I wanted to give a thorough explanation for my change & reasoning since it didn't quite match up to the original explanation, so let me know if you're making different deductions. The way I've put it now seems like the simplest explanation for all the tests together. - jerodast (talk) 23:12, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Avenge's order of play

The first paragraph under "Deathrattles" points out that Avenge will activate before or after the Deathrattle of the triggering minion depending on play order, and says this can be "very significant". However, the very next paragraph goes on to give examples of Deathrattle minions dying and triggering Avenge, NONE of which depend on the order the minion and Avenge were played. Needless to say this is confusing. Are there any examples that can be added of one Avenge order actually creating a different outcome from the other? In any case I plan on rewording that paragraph to draw a greater contrast with the next one, so readers have a clearer picture of when it does or doesn't matter. - jerodast (talk) 01:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

What about this:

Harvest Golem, Avenge, Silverhand Recruit, kill Harvest Golem: Deathrattle queued, Avenge queued, Avenge can target the damaged golem OR the silverhand recruit.

Avenge, Harvest Golem, Silverhand Recruit, kill Harvest Golem: Avenge queued, deathrattle queued, Avenge can target only the silverhand recruit.

Would require testing, because it's unintuitive, and also because of situations where it could matter more, like if instead of Sylvanas Windrunner it was Harvest Golem.

--Patashu (talk) 05:09, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Ah, good call. I've tested it and you are correct; it's now added to the page. - jerodast (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Looks good now! --Patashu (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)